Should the Mets Deal Before the Deadline?
No doubt you’ve seen the rumors of the Mets’ interest in people such as Ramon Hernandez, Huston Street, Grant Balfour, etc. Acquiring a few pieces before the July 31 trade deadline would certainly be exciting, but would it really be helpful toward the Mets’ pursuit of a postseason appearance? And could deals hurt more than they help?
First off, there is the notion that by doing something — i.e., making a trade — the front office is showing the Mets players that they “have their back,” that they’re sending the message that they believe in the team and doing what they can to help support them. But is that true?
Surely, someone like David Wright or R.A. Dickey will be quick to agree with that notion. But I’m not sure it would be the opinion of every player on the 25-man roster. For example, what if the Mets are able to acquire the aforementioned Hernandez or Miguel Olivo — either of whom would push Mike Nickeas back to AAA and could possibly take over Josh Thole‘s starting catcher role? It’s a case of “be careful what you wish for,” isn’t it?
You can extend that to the fans as well. Fans always want to see trades and free-agent signings, because everyone likes to get something “new” — whether it’s a tie, a toaster, or an addition to one’s favorite baseball team. But again, what if the new player pushes out a “homegrown” favorite like Thole, Daniel Murphy, or Lucas Duda? Or, what if the trade sends away someone like Duda or, say, Jordany Valdespin? Again, be careful what you wish for.
Wait, Valdespin? Why would the Mets ever trade Valdespin? He’s already shown to be a versatile, athletic, dynamic player with some pop and a flair for the dramatic. Surely they wouldn’t trade him away now. But those of a certain age may remember the summer of 2000, when Rey Ordonez broke his arm and the Mets made a trade for Mike Bordick. Among the players who were sent away in the package included a young, versatile, athletic, and dynamic player who had shown some pop and a flair for the dramatic at the MLB level — Melvin Mora.
We can argue whether the Bordick trade was a good one; the Mets did make the World Series that year, after all. But that’s not the point. The point is that you never know who is going to be moved, and it could be someone you enjoy watching, and/or someone you believe could fill a current hole. At the time, I thought the Mets were crazy to trade away Mora; he wasn’t a great shortstop but he was good enough to play there a few times a week, and his bat would make up for his defensive shortcomings. But Steve Phillips felt differently and brought in the steady yet unspectacular Bordick, who wound up providing OK defense and a .685 OPS in 56 games. His contribution was so inconsequential that Kurt Abbott played started at shortstop in Game 5 of the World Series that October, and wound up with the same number of at-bats as Bordick in the Fall Classic. Kurt Abbott!
Which brings me to another point: just because a player is new, doesn’t necessarily make him better. Sure, everyone is calling for Jason Bay to be replaced; names like Carlos Quentin and Justin Upton are being buzzed about. But there’s no guarantee either will be an upgrade over Bay’s current replacement, Scott Hairston. Sure, Hairston can move over to RF vs. lefties, but then that pushes out Duda. Yes, Duda is struggling against LHPs, but isn’t this supposed to be a rebuilding year? Doesn’t it make sense to expose Duda to lefthanders, to see if he can eventually figure them out? Or do the Mets want to breed and develop platoon players?
The same questions can be asked if Ramon Hernandez, Miguel Olivo, or another righthanded-hitting catcher is brought on board — what does that say about the organization’s opinion of Josh Thole? If the everyday lineup suddenly includes Hernandez, Hairston, and Quentin, aren’t the Mets getting away from that “homegrown” concept they’ve been selling all year? The same concept that has put the team six games over .500 at the All-Star break?
Naturally, the situation is different if the Mets can pick up a reliever or two, since the bullpen has been ineffective and there are always innings to go around. Though, there’s a part of me that wonders if there’s an obtainable veteran reliever who will definitely outperform Pedro Beato, Josh Edgin, and/or Elvin Ramirez. Hard to say, since Beato showed to be fairly effective before injuring his shoulder last year, and we have no idea, yet, what Edgin and Ramirez can do at the MLB level. Again, isn’t this supposed to be a rebuilding year — a year when you find out who among the youngsters can cut the mustard in the big leagues?
That’s just as much a question as the concern of “mortgaging the future” — i.e., trading away a prospect — for rentals / short-term results. My guess is that most of you agree it makes no sense to trade away Zack Wheeler or Matt Harvey, as those young pitchers are key to the Mets’ future. But similarly, it may not make sense to take away at-bats from Duda, or innings from Beato. Of course, much depends on which players you believe will be part of the Mets future, as well as whether you truly believe the 2012 Mets have a valid shot at a World Championship.
What’s your thought? Should the Mets deal for a few veterans? Are there pieces the Mets can pick up that will “put them over the top,” and get them to a World Series? Is the gamble of acquiring them worth the possibility of retarding the development of current players and prospects? Post your thoughts in the comments.
I also am not a believer of holding on to Duda and Tole either and would certainly trade to get help at thier positions. When do you see either of those two being all stars at thier positions. I think they are very replaceable.
Awful, awful defensive catcher, which is what I don’t like to see – at any rate.
Big-time PB guy, in addition to questions of whether or not he prepares enough for his in-game competition. To me, that translates to “whatever offensive production he might bring to the table will be given right back in terms of lack of defense/smarts behind the dish”.
Pass.
The guy I’ve loved for awhile is Ryan Doumit; and was hoping they’d pursue him in a deal w/Pittsburgh – around the time they signed Paulino 2 winters ago.
Thing that sucks there is that Minnesota just signed him to a 2-year extension not even 2 weeks ago, so I doubt you’ll see any movement that way.
As far as RH Bats:
– Willingham
– Ross
– Quentin
– Upton
– Guerrero
– Manny
I know that the last 2 options are old and very likely incapable of playing adequate defense. However, they’d essentially be free for half a season to roll the dice on (presuming you were okay with the chemistry-factor as well – which I doubt Alderson does).
Not gonna happen, but you do have options that are about as banged-up as Jason Bay will be —- who are already better all-around hitters.
Again, chances of happening are virtually nill.
Sign me up for Huston Street (another guy I’ve always loved, and would have gladly given up Pelfrey for over the winter, even prior to injuring himself) – could have potentially saved us from wasting so much money on Rauch/Francisco this winter.
I’m very interested in seeing what does or doesn’t occur by the deadline. The 1st 2 series’ post-ASB will say a lot.
Bring up Edgin to see if the BP stabilizes with him and Beato.
Need a platoon partner for Duda? how is half a year worth of Vlad Guerrero?. You only give up money.
And Hernandez this year gives you as much as Johnson who is currently at AAA.
If they do deal, I’d be more inclined to trade Murphy or Duda for a prospect with more upside, rather than give up prospects (or even money) for an unlikely shot at this year’s playoffs.
Good piece. I love that they are in the mix, but I think the longer term is more important. That said, I still think they can make upgrades, be it small or big. This winter, the 40 man roster may be crowded, so I do think they could move a mid-level player now for some help. I do think that taking on money vs. trading chips is the better way and what they will do. Like Walnutz, I think Street could help beyond this year. My basic plan would be to keep the blue chippers, and only move a good prospect or two for a player that will be part of the 2013 or beyond team.
Hmmm…but wait: I think that’s also true of position players. Oh well.
The key ingredient isn’t obtainable, far as I can tell, since what is needed is an impact player who’s also a catcher. No championship Mets team has been without one.
Oh, wait …
I’m sorta serious there. No, they shouldn’t make any big changes but if something interesting comes up, they can tweak things.
That was a situation where a key part of the infield was deemed necessary to be replaced when there was a good chance to get to the post season and Mora seemed too green at the time. What like situation would occur now?
But… Mora was 28 at the time of the trade. I think his offense looked better than it really was because he replaced the light-hitting Ordonez.. He was underwhelming as a player in Baltimore for a couple of years after that trade, IIRC. Then he just kind of exploded offensively, I remember he had a really great year and then a few good ones…. and then was gone.
Jordany is 24, seems to be versatile in the field and could be the super-sub the Mets need, as well as injected speed into the lineup. Too bad he’s a lefty.
In any case, it wasn’t necessarily the fact that Mora went on to have a decent career while Bordick returned to the O’s as a FA that winter, that upset me. I really and truly believed at the time, for the last half of the season, Mora was a viable answer and could have injected some badly needed offense.
But, wrong or not, the PTB did not think he was “adequate” & it wasn’t just a few months, but the post-season too. Bordick was, rightly or wrongly, seen as a safer placeholder & he was after all was selected to the 2000 All-Star Game.
In effect, and as I recall the Mets hit more in ’00 than ’99, the PTB sacrificed long term potential for short term gains. That’s my point here — it’s harder to see that occurring since both a key position hole would need to arise PLUS the Mets would have a better shot than they do now (after they already just missed in ’99) to go far.
If both things occurred, yes, V. might be sacrificed for a short term hope. Curious who would have to be replaced for that to occur, thus my question.
Be creative.
Perhaps Hairston and Parnell for some contender’s toolsy prospect… who just might be ready to help right away, a la Kazmir?
Perhaps an over-rated prospect of our own for a hot reliever, like Cesar Puello for Tim Collins or Charlie Furbush? Then if we tank in the next 3 weeks, we turn around and trade Collins or Furbush for a better prospect.
Who’s better over the next 3 years, Ike or Duda? Keep that guy at 1B, trade the other one for relief and OF help, thus also improving our RF defense.
Buy low on a disappointments with upside, like Porcello, Arrieta, or Justin Upston if the reports on his availability are true.
The Tigers are all in on this year; offer them whatever they need most, and make them pay for it.
We’ve proven our system can fill up a 25-man roster with players who are adequate. Before we can become a top organization, we need to convert some of that depth into difference-makers. The 2012 trade deadline should be a step in that direction. Then whatever changes are made to the major league roster can simply be pitched as an attempt at improvement, and everyone’s happy expect for the second-guessers who are gonna be unhappy anyway.
As for buying low on Porcello or Upton — and again, I agree I’d be into doing that — who not named Wheeler or Harvey will the Tigers or D-Backs be interested in receiving? I’m not sure there’s much demand for the likes of Duda, Thole, Murphy, and similar players who seem to have shown their ceiling.
As for Porcello, I think his stock has fallen and the Tigers desperately need help ASAP. We have a lot of players who could make their team better in 2012; I don’t know whether Duda, Thole or Murphy best suits their needs, but one of those guys might, or maybe Parnell, and I bet a hot Hairston could sweeten the deal. It could be that if the Tigers make Porcello available they’ll get a better offer, but hey, ya never know; they never shopped Jurrjens before trading him for Renteria. Pick up the phone, Sandy!
While they shouldn’t be traded for the sake of trading I imagine that Duda or Murphy could be swapped for a RH’d outfielder that would better suit the team’s needs.
And like everyone else (except Alderson/Collins) I think it imperative to get an automatic out like Nickeas off the team. Shoppach, Ramon Hernandez, and Olivo would all be upgrades.
Excellent point regarding redundancy of those 3 players. This will most likely be fixed in the offseason. I think Hernandez makes most sense at C assuming he is healthy and can produce close to his track record. I understand the respect for Nickeas and a catcher’s ERA, as the starters have been tremendous, so I think only Hernandez has the potential to give enough of an offensive and RH boost to the O to offset Nickeas’s defensive value. That, and with the money owed Hernandez they would need to part with the least to obtain him…it shouldn’t impact the future negatively in any way.
Olivo has a OPS of .737 and plays in the most pitcher-friendly park in the majors (he only bats .184 at home). His defense avg is only .991, but he has 33% CS. Add to that a weak lineup and I can see a real renaissance at CitiField.
I’d like to see them take their chances on Miguel and send Mike down. He is just not a MLB catcher, not even really AAAA.
I like Lucas and would rather have him at first than Ike.
1. Matt Harvey: Is ready…POINT BLANK.
He is more ready than Dillon Gee or Niese or Bobby P. when THEY were promoted…..AND in 2 of those cases there WAS a race. Matt has the best ‘stuff’, best form and best pedigree. PLUS he is not 19. He is 23. He has Chris Young, RA Dickey AND Johan Santana around him too. He has Wright Tejada and Ike playing defense behind him. AND he is the anti-dillon Gee….a strikeout pitcher who is currently 2nd in the IL. THE QUESTION you want to ask is who would do better…Batista, Hefner, Schwinden or Harvey.
My main concern is that he’s rushed the way Pelfrey was and never does completely develop the off-speed pitch that turns him into a front-of-the-rotation guy.
– Jordy, could get more ABs in CF. He looks very natural.
-Kirk, needs to settle in. I think he could take RF/or CF permanently. But flipping him in 3 OF spots and up and down the order has not helped. Leave him in a LF platoon with Hairston. Or rotate him in RF with Duda.
-Torres is as he was on day1…odd man out. Jody maybe 24, but Torres is much older. I like him, but I like Kirk, Jordy, Haiston Duda, and Bay more.
A left-handed reliever can wait as we see what Edgin can provide.