Mets Vulture Over Yankees?
Tuesday is the big day for the New York Yankees braintrust, who will be having a big pow-wow in Tampa, Florida, to decide the fate of Joe Torre (among other things).
From the Mets’ fan’s point of view, the question is, do we care?
I think we should have a vested interest in the developments. After all, the ousting or retention of Torre could spark a domino effect.
For example, if Torre stays, that likely means that both Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera are re-signed. Both longtime Yankees are “Torre guys” and may be more inclined to stay in the Bronx if they know Joe will be captain of the ship in 2008.
In contrast, there’s a bit of a chance that Alex Rodriguez will be inclined to LEAVE if Joe Torre returns. Contrary to popular belief, Torre is not exactly on A-Rod’s Christmas card list. OK, that’s probably not true — a phony baloney like A-Rod should have 90% of MLB on his holiday list. But one must wonder if Alex has yet to forget Torre penciling him into the eighth spot of the batting order in a postseason contest. The greatest player (ego) in the history of baseball, batting 8th in one of the most important games of the season. Talk about a slap in the face.
Not that the Mets will pursue Rodriguez — but where he ends up could indirectly affect the Mets.
For example … let’s say the Red Sox want to sign A-Rod but want to shed some dollars. Like, Manny dollars. Omar Minaya will be on that one-year, $20M like white on rice. Or what if the Orioles decided to enter the bidding? Surely they’d look to deal Miguel Tejada, who might consider playing second base in New York. I’m reaching here, I know … but this is what makes the Hot Stove season so much fun.
On the other hand, if the Yankees choose to oust Joe Torre from the managerial position, how will that affect other personnel?
If he’s offended by the removal of Torre, perhaps Jorge Posada would like to come to Flushing. We’ll be happy to have him catch the inaugural first pitch at Citi Field in 2009 as well, for the princely sum of $30M over two years. How about it?
Similarly, his late-inning batterymate could really stick it to the Yankees by putting on the Mets’ orange and blue. And setting up instead of closing. He does have that restaurant to look over, after all. A three-year deal is not out of the question for the greatest reliever of all time.
In addition, if Torre was let go, the first call I’d make would be to Larry Bowa — who would be ideal as the foil to Willie Randolph in the role of bench coach. At the very least I’d ask if he wanted to replace Don Quixote … er, Sandy Alomar, Jr. … as third-base coach.
And what the heck, let’s bring Torre back to the Mets as well, as a TV analyst.
Oh, I know … we hate the Yankees and don’t want to have anything to do with them. But, Willie Randolph was a Yankee for a short time (almost a quarter century in pinstripes, in fact), and personally, I have no problem with Mo and Jorge coming this way.
We’ll see what the story is on Wednesday …
Realistically, I think Joe stays with the Yankees. It was George Steinbrennar who came out with the “fire Torre” story amidst their ALDS, and I can’t take a thing he says seriously anymore. #1, because his health is so bad he may not even know what state he’s in half the time, and #2, his sons are taking control of the team now, and neither has said anything to the contrary of Joe leaving. I think if they wanted a new manager, they would have canned Torre by now. Additionally, who fills Torre’s void as manager? Is Mattingly ready? Is Girardi right for the job? Does La Rusa want the pressure of playing in NY? Does Showalter want to manage again? All questions that won’t have to be answered if Torre is retained.
However, if I’m wrong, then you’re right Joe, the domino effect will be felt by every team in baseball. Posada would be a nice addition behind the plate for the Mets (as well as a nice right-handed backup for Delgado at 1B), and Rivera would make for a premeir set-up man (although I wouldn’t mind him at least sharing closing duties with Wagner). I can’t see Torre as a TV analyst with the Mets. He’s been quoted as saying he wants to manage until he’s 70 (which is 3 years away), and I’m sure some other team would scoop him up in that capacity. No thanks on Bowa. I remember too keenly his escapades in Philly and don’t want that festering on our bench. I agree Alomar, Sr. did a horrible job as 3rd base coach in ’07, but there have got to be better candidates to replace him.
1. yes giradi and Mattingly are names thrown out there so far. But so has Pinella who
has been in Chi-town one year. Is it too far fetched for the new Yankee brass to come THIS waay to entice Willie?
a: given Omar’s ‘support’ of Willie, the Yanks might pay compensation (Humberto Sanchez)
b. Willie was a pin stripe as u said for a quarter century, a player on the bronx is burning, a coach for the 5 recent WS titles, and according to most of us an AL style manager.
c. Yes, Omar endorsed his $3M/yr coach, but (ala BV in 2001), most media ‘experts’ persist in saying Willie has a short leash for next yr…..
so why doesn’t he bolt to his beloved Yanks?
Ultimately we will see….but like you said the ripple effects of todays decision will affect the Mets, but I think it will affect not only players but coaches.
2: No post on Leo mazzone? Let me remind you he was the FIRST choice before Duke went after Rick Peterson.
No thanks on Bowa? With all the lackluster emotion and need for some fire in the clubhouse? I think he’d be ideal — he’d be to Randolph as Don Zimmer was to Torre (back when the Yankees had a fire in their belly). If not Bowa, what do you think of the idea? Getting a fiery bench coach who could also tell Willie when to use the suicide squeeze?
Willie in the Bronx … well we know he looks good in pinstripes. I’m not seeing it. Supposedly, Don Mattingly has told the Steinbrenners he’s not ready to be a manager of the Yankees. Girardi has canceled his radio interviews for the past week, so if Torre’s out, my guess is Girardi’s in.
Though it would be a masterful, spit-on-the-Mets move for the Yanks to hire Randolph away.
I think that John Maine and Ollie Perez secured The Jacket’s job for at least another year. And re-read what you typed — it was Duquette’s idea to bring in Mazzone. I think Omar made it pretty clear that any remnants of “Duke’s” ideas were to be disposed of quickly. Omar’s big coaching catch will be Jaramillo.
1. Given Willie’s orientation with the Mets he might be primed to be the yanks manager.
I think it would be GREAT press if they did entice him away from the Mets.
2. You set yourself up. Jaramillo was an Omar choice before. If he comes to NY as hitting coach it further ups the acrimony with Omar and has Willie second guessing everything he does….moreso than with Julio franco.
3. Which brings up another point: What was the W-L record before cutting Franco, and then after?
Could his loss be an intangible in the severe losing streak? If so does a former Ranger tandem in Franco and Jaramillo rise in Shea?
4. Re-read my post: OK, let me go back. SP lured Glavine away but he wasnt exactly hot stuff his first two yrs. Duke tried to ‘fix’ Tommy by bringing in Mazzone. So Atl extended Mazzone’s contract rather than let him go to a division rival. So Duke hired Peterson to go with Art howe, the two having worked together in Oakland. So, then Omar has NOT cleaned out ALL duke’s remnants. But if he got Jaramillo AND Mazzone I believe he has THE best (upgrade) of the hitting and pitching coaches.
5. caveat: I’m with Isu tho. I doubt Torre is fired.
2. Question: why is there never any mention of Joe Torre’s lack of autonomy with the coaches who are hired for him?
3. I would have liked to be a fly on the clubhouse wall during Julio Franco’s tenure. There’s so much mixed information regarding his influence. I don’t see Franco returning unless Randolph is leaving.
4. Touche. And thanks, you’ve given me fodder for a new quick post.
5. Ditto.
And Micalpalyn, I totally forgot about that Mazzone move. Or non-move. That’s interesting. However, if Mazzone was let go by b-more, and Glav is being courted by Atlanta (which we don’t know) since Schuerholz left, Mazzone may be back for one last hoo-rah too. Just sayin…
I also don’t think Torre leaves. They do this every damn year, and every damn year Clueless Joe comes back!
Every offseason it’s the same crap: George threatens to fire Torre, and Tom Glavine threatens to go back to Atlanta. Ho hum.
All we need now is a hot and juicy Manny Ramirez trade rumor and the Hot Stove season will be complete.
Maybe we can coax Steve Howe to try and make a comeback with the Yankees.
Uh Coop took this to a new level: First I add that rumor was the club house was divided. Tom and Loduca and Wags in one corner. And the delgado, Reyes corner.
julio Franco is as much a legend in the Dominican as PEDRO is. Julio Franco was let go not as much for his hitting but the fact he had become devisive in the club house….that leads me to suspect then the likes of Del, reyes, Sosa and maybe Beltran had become apathetic to Willie’s cliche’s. Then extracting Franco took the cohesion from that group. Add to that what Coop alludes to, that franco was THE first bat off the bench in every clutch situation early in the season. In other words Willie set franco up. He did not care about match ups he simply wanted to expose Julio’s slower bat. early on Franco walked every time up but eventually………..
Why not just make him a coach? Willie did not want him as aplayer and definately not as a coach.
A-rod to the bo sox, (lowell (back) to the Yanks), then Manny to the Mets………..
It seemed like on the surface, though, Willie liked Franco – but again, it sort of ties into how Willie might have felt undermined by the upper management. Even now, with Bernazard’s presence in the locker room. In fact, it was I think Mike and the Idiot Boy who brought up the idea that Willie went tit-for-tat with Omar and said, you get rid of my guy, I get rid of yours.
Sorry Micalpalyn LOL – did not want to start a conspiracy.
1. Julio Franco wants to play until he’s at least 50
2. Franco was clearly underperforming in his limited role
3. Franco was unhappy with his reduced role
I don’t know that Willie would sabotage himself and the outcome of games by putting Franco in to hit in clutch situations. I think it was more a matter of the “game plan” outlined before the season by Willie and Omar — the same plan that said Wagner pitches the ninth, Heilman pitches the eighth, Castro is the backup catcher, no starters go beyond 100 pitches, etc. Omar / Willie are all about specific roles, which I understand but don’t necessarily buy in to, because a roster and a season and the performance of players can be so dynamic. Willie was putting Franco into those situations because if he didn’t, then what was the point of him taking a roster spot? Franco was on the team because he’s been such a great pinch hitter in the past, and Willie was going to continue going to him until he started hitting.
It’s not dissimilar to Willie bringing in Mota and The Show over and over and over and over. Willie defines it as “confidence in my guys”; others define it as “insanity”.
As far as the internal stuff, who knows? It’s probable that with so much idle time in the dugout, Franco was ornery and becoming a problem. It’s rare that everyday players are disgruntled and causing problems in the clubhouse. Franco felt mistreated, or whatever, and he being the man he is most likely voiced his opinion. His supporters were behind him, while others weren’t.
But therein lies the problem — the biggest voice behind the scenes, the one distinguished “leader”, was the 25th man. And now we understand that Delgado and Alou were the “leaders” after Franco left. Delgado, who had the worst season of his life and Alou who missed four months of the season.
It’s a lot easier to gain the respect of your peers, and lead them, when you are a) playing everyday and b) performing at a high level.
Do we really think anyone would be talking about Aaron Rowand’s leadership if he hit .260 this past season?
Did Bob Lemon lead the ’78 Yankees to the World Championship, or was it Munson, Nettles, Piniella (combined with the absence of Billy Martin).
Did Davey Johnson really LEAD the Mets in ’86, or was it Knight, Keith, Carter, etc.?
Yes there are some managers who lead — Leyland, Bobby V come to mind — but I think that’s more personality, which doesn’t change. So if the Mets aren’t going to change Willie, they need to find some players to lead — some Knights and Keiths.
Franco: I agree with all of u. But like Coop and all of us recognize we dont know the whole story. Very similarly the Kazmir trade has been mired in hearsay in which NO ONE has yet taken responsibility for making that recommendation. Note to isu: atlanta picked him up then sent him to A ball. WE could have demoted him too (with permission) and then added him later in Sept. There again is evidence of a split.
b). I kinda harped on this but prior to Franco’s ‘dismissal’, he was rumored to be sulking (and slumping), and second guessing Willie. Is that a suprise? No. We have been doing it DAILY for 3 yrs. (before that we were focused on POOR personnel issues).
c). Davey Johnson!!!!!! the man responsible for (my ) darkest moment in Mets history!!! (game4-NLCS-9th inning-Gooden (still) pitching)
d). OK Joe and Isu: Leadership; It isw my opinion that coaches are fired because they cannot motivate the players. I believe that comes from atitude, respect, communication, then ability to make on field (tactical) decisions. johnson was very blindly robotic in some of his decisions, likewise Willie. Then again
Interestingly, note the synopsis of the 1996-2004era. After the magical 1999 the Mets started 2000 17-9 then lost 8 straight. Response SP fires the entire coaching staff except BV.
Why do I bring this up? Even if willie does stay, could Omar get heavy handed with the coaching staff? Wasnt Omar part of SP shop that season (precedence)? We know Omar is scouting Jaramillo…what else is up his sleeve?
Jaramillo is THE thing up his sleeve. I don’t know anyone else — other than Leo Mazzone — who would make a significant impact on the coaching staff. And I get this feeling that Minaya is on board with the Jacket, due to the success of Maine, Ollie, etc., so Mazzone is not an option. I think.
read and enjoy
thanks for the link and the idea !!!