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June 28, 2013 Mets 2013 Games Joe Janish

Mets Game 75: Win Over Rockies

Mets 3 Rockies 2

They win yesterday, they win today … if they win tomorrow, now that’s called a “winning streak.”

Mets Game Notes

This was an exciting come-from-behind win for the Mets. Which means that yes, I missed the game due to a work thing. That’s becoming a habit lately, but it should be easing off in the next few weeks.

Please post your observations in the comments. Thanks.

Next Mets Game

The Mets return home to host the Nationals. Game one begins at 7:10 p.m. Friday night. Matt Harvey goes to the hill against Ross Detwiler.

Joe Janish began MetsToday in 2005 to provide the unique perspective of a high-level player and coach -- he earned NCAA D-1 All-American honors as a catcher and coached several players who went on to play pro ball. As a result his posts often include mechanical evaluations, scout-like analysis, and opinions that go beyond the numbers. Follow Joe's baseball tips on Twitter at @onbaseball and at the On Baseball Google Plus page.
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  1. AC Wayne June 28, 2013 at 1:03 am
    It was nice to see the BP make the lead stick. Parnell has really solidified the closer role going 5-for-5 in save opp. during this last road trip. Since June 13th, the Mets are 8-7. It may not mean much for contending clubs but for the Mets it’s a positive. Good win for the B squad.
  2. murph June 28, 2013 at 2:18 am
    It was certainly the B-squad with Wright & Buck on the bench, so it was definitely good to see them come from behind to win this one. Jeremy Hefner got his first RBI of the season, although not his first career RBI (he hit a solo HR last year).
    Is Marlon Byrd trade bait, and if so, what can the Mets get for him?
  3. AC Wayne June 28, 2013 at 3:52 am
    Too bad the Mets aren’t in win-now mode because Byrd would be a nice role player. But let’s face it, along w/Buck, he’s a goner. As for what the Mets could get for him, I guess you could use the Francoeur deal for starters. Who was it, Joaquin Arias?
  4. argonbunnies June 28, 2013 at 4:58 am
    Francoeur’s who Byrd should replace. The Royals’ pitching has been great, and if they could replace some of their awful hitters with mediocre ones they might have a shot.

    Of course, they might have given the Rays all their young talent already… We could try to buy low on Moustakas, but (a) we have a 3B, and (b) when was the last time the Mets took a struggling player from another organization and fixed them? Rick Reed?

    I wish I could be happy about today’s win, but I really do not care about wins and losses in 2013 any more. All I care about is progress toward contention. If Byrd and Parnell just bumped their trade value, great. Otherwise, ehn.

    Nieuwenhuis riding the pine and demonstrating the lack of an organizational plan is more troubling to me than anything else. “Let’s let this kid heat up in AAA, and once he’s in a groove, send him to the majors to do nothing and lose the groove and halt any progress he might have been making.” He hit a walk-off homer and started 1 of the next 5 games, for pete’s sake. Kirk should be thinking “please trade me to an organization that actually takes player development seriously”.

    • Happy59 June 28, 2013 at 5:30 am
      Argon, I agree with you in regards to Nieuwenhuis, he seems to be in Collins/Alderson doghouse for unknown reasons. He hasn’t been given a real chance so far this year, one start, then benched seems to be the norm. Like others he should be allowed to start for week at least to give him a chance to get comfortable and produce.

      What’s with all the strike outs and double plays recently?

      It displeased me to see Costas back pedal on his comments to the point of trying to make himself out to be the “victim” of the fans outrage. Costas has allowed his “fame” to cloud his judgement and common courtesy, thinking to highly of himself, above reproach in his mind. Costas, take responsibility for your actions.

      Although the lack of common courtesy and not taking responsibility for one’s actions unfortunately seems to have become the norm in today’s society.

    • Dan B June 28, 2013 at 7:43 am
      AB, the reason the Mets let young outfielders like Kirk sit on the bench is because they never bothered to sign journeymen this offseason other then Byrd. They only have young outfielders and even then they don’t have a lot. The Mets started the year with only three natural outfielders in Vegas. As a matter of fact, none of their farm teams had more then one backup outfielder. I can understand the Mets not spending money on expensive free agents but their cutting costs in player development makes me sick. And that is another reason to hate the Wilpons.
      • DaveSchneck June 28, 2013 at 9:22 am
        Dan,
        Excellent point. Alderson got lambasted for signing Ankiel. Signing Ankiel wasn’t the problem, it was how he was used relative to the young players. A guy like Ankiel should be used to protect the young guys, meaning he rides the pines, plays every 5th day, PHs, etc.., which a kid with a chance at upside based on age/devlopment either plays ahead of him or is sent to AAA to play daily. They finally got Lagares regular time, but they are much better off sending Kirk to Vegas to play every day and bringing a guy like Baxter back for the limited role. Or, I bet Ankiel is still available, maybe they can take a mulligan with him and try over.
      • DaveSchneck June 28, 2013 at 9:28 am
        Joe J.,
        Collins made a mind-boggling statement in the postgame that I would love your take on, although I am pretty sure what you will say. Byrd was asked about his big throw in the 9th to cut down Cuddyer at 2B, and he said it was a function of repeated practice…he practices throwing to every base every day before a game. Collins in a separate interview said the same thing, and went on to say Byrd was one of the only OF to do this, and that the young players should follow his example. If found this to be very self-incriminating. How is it possible that he as the manager doesn’t mandate this type of preparation? Are manager’s that powerless or fearful of offending players? Are most players that arrogant that they can’t routinely practice the basic plays/throws? I know it is a long season, and they need to avoid burnout, but 5 minutes of OF throws to each base before a game shouldn’t burn out a professional baseball player, should it?
        • Walnutz15 June 28, 2013 at 10:29 am
          I had heard that, as well Dave.

          Simply further indictment of Collins and his staff – IMHO.

          Mainly, I just listen to Met interviews on various outlets for comedic purposes, be it “Metspeak” – or Collins’ Jerry Manuel jibberish impressions…..but this one was more like:

          “…………what?!!!”

          For starters, I can’t believe this to be true on a Major League roster – full of young, inexperienced (poor)outfielders.

          Granted, they’ve gotten a bit better of late…..but the fact remains. They don’t go out and take extra reps.

          Secondly, how the hell does Collins admit to it — seeing as how his club’s looked terrible and unprepared at points (still, even with this little string of success – 32 games under-.500 since July 2012) for a full calendar year?

          Granted, I’m realistic about players and their pregame preparation…..but to hear that Byrd (a veteran of so many years) is essentially THE ONLY GUY to be doing so?

          That’s terrible, and more proof that things are pretty lax amidst a bad ballclub.

        • Dan B June 28, 2013 at 10:31 am
          Dave, I don’t think managers ever mandated such practicing. I remember Davey Johnson talking about watching Brooks Robinson taking fielding practice every day. When he asked Robinson why a gold glove fielder would do that, Robinson replied, “I’m a gold glove fielder BECAUSE I practice every day.” Johnson then decided to do the same thing and became a three time gold glove second basemen himself. Moral of the story? 1) Managers since at least the 60’s do not mandate such practicing, 2) players credit natural ability more then practicing for their results, and 3) perfect practice really does produce perfect play.
        • Walnutz15 June 28, 2013 at 10:36 am
          Attaboy, Dan. Always drive me crazy to hear “practice makes perfect” — perfect practice, provided it gets there, makes perfect.
        • Walnutz15 June 28, 2013 at 10:33 am
          Tip o’ the cap to Jeremy Hefner, for another quality start. He’s done a great job of keeping this club in ballgames for 2 seasons now.

          Additionally, to Byrd…..for exceeding expectation. Can’t even say how many were in favor of cutting him out of ST, just because they didn’t like him.

          I hoped to get maybe a “1st Year Tatis”-type season from him, but he’s turned out to be best we’ve got in that outfield.

          (Though, I wouldn’t expect him to bring much value back, provided they do explore a mid-summer deal.)

        • Mic June 28, 2013 at 4:43 pm
          Dave,
          I am sorry but you opened a door . I might be in the minority but you simply laid out on a line why I think terry cannot be seen a long term manager. It IS that simple, AND what makes it worse is he chastises Kirk, Ike, bobby and other young players but marlon is leading by example, but is terry using him appropriately as a communicator and leader?

          This is also a huge example of what good veterans can bring to a ball club.

    • TexasGusCC June 28, 2013 at 9:27 am
      Argonbunnies, I was thinking about that also, but the team is finally playing well, EY is in left, Lagares in center, and Byrd is showcased in right. As soon as Byrd and Murphy are traded, Neuwenheis and Valdespin will see the field. However, I understand your point. The Mets seem to be in a period of flux between the trading deadline and Kirk’s and Valdy’s playing time.
    • Jon C June 28, 2013 at 9:41 am
      Normally I agree when it comes to this issue, but I think kirk has been given his chances.

      I think the real issue here is EY came in on fire, lagares started performing and needs his opportunity as much as kirk (if not moreso). That leaves one spot: Byrd.

      Now there is an argument to be made that as a veteran player Byrd is meaningless to our future and we’d be better off tossing out a young guy like kirk to develop. I made this argument myself when Byrd was signed.

      And I know W/L don’t necessarily mean a whole lot this year.

      But they cannot be COMPLETELY ignored when it comes to player development. There is something to be said for learning to be a part of a “winning” culture.

      How much were these guys developing a month ago when seemingly no one on the team could even get on base? Balls were flying over Duda’s head, etc.

      Now players like EY are getting on base, all of a sudden it becomes easier to hit (defensive positioning, covering SB, pitching out of the stretch, etc. all make it easier for the batter). In regards to Byrd specifically, he is producing both offensively and defensively, and in doing so, giving our young players a chance to prove themselves in WINNING games.

      Ok, I don’t think I did a great job of making my point there. To summarize, Byrd puts our team in a chance to win games, and younger players thus learn what it takes to win, have a higher chance of succeeding due to runners on base, and gain confidence which further increases their chance of success.

      • Joe June 28, 2013 at 10:55 am
        I agree with this and question how many fans and even players can act like wins don’t matter. Teams are developing to a future all the time.

        It still is a matter of individual games too. I’m sorry. Do you expect players to play if winning doesn’t matter? They aren’t automans just playing for the future. They also want to win too. They are happy when they win. Fans are too. Why? After all, wins don’t matter. A good pitched game etc. should be a reason to cheer. Doesn’t really QUITE work that way.

        As noted, winning also is important for development. The win the other day involved a lot of doing the fundamentals, including some great infield play. Wins tend to follow from that. Overall, wins often are based on that. So, wins are a sign of the team doing a good job, the players of the future playing well.

        Winning only matters so much in years like this, but it still matters. Anyway, Hefner again shows something. He can’t continuously pitch six or more innings with a good ERA and be given faint praise as a AAAA player. He is what a team needs — a pretty steady slot in the rotation. He also is what a growing / bad team needs. The same thing, cheap.

  5. NormE June 28, 2013 at 11:56 am
    Great discussion!
    Byrd has more value than Hairston did last year. He’s playing every day, hitting better than we thought, and is playing better defense than Hairston did. Trade him only if a can’t miss opportunity presents itself. Otherwise keep him and let him serve as a role model for younger players. He’s not getting paid a lot of money. I agree with Walnutz that he probably won’t bring back much in a trade.
    Dave Schneck is correct about Baxter. He has value as a bench player, whereas Capt. Kirk doesn’t and should be sent down to play regularly.
    Finally, DanB, you are not alone in your diagnosis of the
    Mets ailment and the cause (Wilponitis).
    • Quinn June 28, 2013 at 3:37 pm
      I wouldn’t go so far as to call Byrd a role model, just because he does what should be routine for a pregame work out does not excuse his cheating past.
  6. TexasGusCC June 28, 2013 at 3:11 pm
    I would like to also give props to Byrd for making me a believer. In spring training and the the first month, he wasn’t doing much. But, if performance is rewarded with playing time, he deserves it. Other guys like Wright and Murphy are busting their butts and care deeply about winning. That needs consideration also. Young came here and hit the ground running. Neuwenheis will get another chance and hopefully he can take advantage of it. Why does bringing up a player from the minors guarantee that player playing time? Making the most of your opportunity and being prepared is what gets playing time, in any sport.
  7. argonbunnies June 30, 2013 at 2:17 am
    Your average fan should be clamoring for Marlon Byrd to be in there each day to increase the team’s chance of winning that day.

    Mets management should not act like your average fan.

    As for the value of bringing players up into a winning culture, I don’t think winning 65 games instead of 60 counts. For any player in the Mets organization to learn what winning feels like, they’d have to do that in the minors. Yet another benefit to Kirk being down there.