I really didn’t want to bring up A-Rod in a conversation that included the Mets. But, it appears that the Mets are at least considering going after the $30M-dollar man — if Omar Minaya’s meeting with David Wright is any indication.
According to Minaya: “I reached out to David and spoke to his representative a little bit,” Minaya said. “With Alex out there, the questions are going to be ‘are the Mets going to be involved?’ I’ve let the representatives know what’s going on and what the thinking is. With a free agent like that, there’s going to be speculation.”
The money shouldn’t be an issue for the Mets. After all, Citi Field promises to bring a windfall of cash, and SNY should grow into a billion-dollar venture before long. And if Buster Olney has the correct facts, MLB.com profits have generated $30M for each team — right there is enough to cover A-Rod’s salary.
Where Rodriguez would play really isn’t an issue, either. You make room for a player of his caliber. Presumably, A-Rod would remain a third baseman and David Wright would change positions — possibly to second base or the outfield. There’s talk he’d move to first base. Not sure why they wouldn’t leave D-Wright where he is, put Rodriguez back to shortstop and move Reyes over to second — Reyes has played there before and did admirably. If the Mets were willing to move Jose for Kaz Matsu, I don’t see why they wouldn’t move him for arguably the best shortstop of all-time. And yes, A-Rod would be at least as good defensively as Reyes at short, if not better.
The issue, rather, is, do we want to see Alex Rodriguez in a Mets uniform?
The last time he was on the market, I had hoped the Mets would at least make a decent offer — though in hindsight I’m glad they signed 17-year-old shortstop Jose Reyes that year instead. This time around, I’m hoping the Mets do not enter the bidding whatsoever, except for the express purpose of driving up the price for someone else.
Can the Mets use a guy in the lineup who is almost certain to hit 45 HRs and drive in 130 runs — in an “off” season? Of course. And though you can say all you want about his greediness, you can’t question his preparation and the way he plays the game. He does everything well, plays as hard as anyone, and produces at a level no one else can match. But in the end, he’s a mercenary.
A-Rod says that he wants to win a World Championship above all else, and he probably believes that’s the truth. The reason he’s leaving the Yankees could be because he doesn’t see them returning to the postseason anytime soon — not with all those young pitchers, the bullpen in a disarray, and the possibility of Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, and Andy Pettitte leaving. At the same time, it’s hard to find another big league team willing to spend $225M+ to almost guarantee that they make the playoffs. Who else has a hands-down better chance to get to the playoffs next year, other than the Yankees? Maybe the Red Sox? By hook or crook, with or without Rodriguez, the “Evil Empire” will do everything in their power to push their team into yet another postseason appearance. So is a World Series ring really his desire, or is it more Kobe Bryant-like? In other words, does A-Rod really want to win a ring on a team where HE is “the man”? After all, on the Yankees, he’d always be second to Derek Jeter in the hearts of the fans and the ink of the media.
Right now, the Mets’ “face” is David Wright. If A-Rod wears orange and blue, that would have to change, immediately. There are already indications that D-Wright would be the one to move to make room. Rodriguez would take not only Wright’s position on the field, but also his position as the face of the franchise. He’ll be on the cover of the media guide, in the Mets commercials, on the SNY opening highlights. It will be A-Rod’s team.
That doesn’t sit well with me as a Mets fan. Not because I want to see David Wright as the face but rather because I don’t want A-Rod as the face. In many ways, Wright is only one of the “faces” — he shares the spotlight with Reyes, and to a lesser degree with the Carloses Beltran and Delgado. There’s room others on Wright’s stage, and in fact there’s no hard indication that it even IS Wright’s stage. Yes he grabs more and more public attention every year but at the same time you still see David’s grin along with a Mets hat, or a Mets jersey, or the NY logo — the team is not lost. If Rodriguez comes on board, the Mets turn into a typical NBA team — it’s all about the superstar first, and the rest of the team comes in second. Someone referred to A-Rod as a “24 and 1” guy, and the tag is apt.
Personally, I hope A-Rod is a non-issue. I don’t care how good he is, I’d rather the Mets take their chances without him. To me, adding A-Rod would completely change the personality of the Mets, and therefore change my view of the team as well. His addition would not excite me in the least — in fact, it would be akin to the day Steve Phillips acquired Roberto Alomar, which was an uneasy feeling of nausea. In fact, I’d likely reconsider my allegiance to the orange and blue.
Joe: How come they talked to Wright and not Reyes?
b. Can Arod play 2nd base?
The Arod debate is a tough one. On one hand we can hope the Mets go all out this offseason: trade Reyes to Minnesota for Santana, get Arod to play SS, and immediately be the WS favorites. On the other, we want to stay the “#2 team” in New York, with our OWN homegrown players and our OWN personality. And although it would be tough not to get swept up in the ride if the Mets were to go crazy this winter and get Johan and Arod, in essence we would become what we hate…the Yankees. Buying talent, hiring mercanaries, and constantly putting the future on hold for the present. And so, I agree with you Joe. I don’t want Arod. I can honestly say I’d rather cheer for a last place team than a team built like the Yankees.
And I have no idea why no one is talking about A-Rod at short. Derek Jeter is the only man on the planet who could keep him from playing the position, and only because the Yankees think Jeter is the second coming. I would think that even Ozzie Smith would have to move over to make room for A-Rod.
Who knows, maybe he likes third base now … but I don’t see him playing the hot corner for any team other than the Yanks.
anyone who would slap the opposing 1st baseman……………
again: i hope we are in it to ‘help’ Scot Boras. I would rather BUY Santana, CC sabathia, Hudson and have 4-5 starters making 10M+ each.
First…I dont know about all this homegrown stuff…but we only have 2-3 “homegrown” guys on our team. Martinez, duque, maine, perez, beltran, delgado, lo duca, alou…all imports whether bought or traded. Hate to break it to you, we became the “new yankees” when Minaya came and we got Pedro, Beltran, and Delgado.
2nd…AROD is a “loser” and has a “me first attitude” and is a “cancer”…lol, that makes me laugh. Other than the fact that his agent is Boras and he has been on bad teams, he has done nothing to earn those monickers. Prior to last year, I dont know anyone who wouldnt want Peyton Manning, and he was a “loser”. Talent is talent, the fact that he makes more money than God is a testament to that, but on most teams, they cant sign anyone else because all their money is tied up. The Yankees lost because of terrible pitching and having guys like Damon and Giambi on their teams.
The “me first attitude”is even more ridiculous. He could have vetoed the trade to the Yanks but he took it to win a championship. He was a better SS than Jeter, but moved to 3b out of respect. He willingly was shuffled around the lineup during his slumps, and was always talking to his teammates, never isolating himself. However, there is no evidence showing he is a good teammate either. I say no better than Beltran…who usually has the same expression.
Frankly, all this talk is the reason why he wont come here. The same people that have boo’d wright and reyes are sharing an ill informed opinion.
AROD does to much to a team not to get him. The Mets are one of the few markets that can give him and Boras what they want.
Personally, I think it would be great for the team to have a professional on the team that keeps his composure and has a level demeanor. I can also see AROD becoming a mentor to Reyes, and both becoming better players and people for it.
Give the best player in baseball a chance…we can never be worse off than we were last year.
BTW…all this talk of saving our money to get a SP instead of AROD. A-there are no SP to sign that are worth it B-Santana isnt available until next year, so worry about him then C-We will not trade Reyes for Santana, and if we did, it would be a very dump + desperate move. Never trade an everyday stud for a 1 day a week God. Great SP doesnt win games…great TEAMS, that beween the SP and RP allow few runs, and an offense the scores a lot of runs…they win championships. [red sox, cardinals, yankees…]
are we to gather you view Arod as the bigger enemy than the Yankees? If you are more concerned with Arod’s personality than the Mets becoming like the Yankees, wouldn’t that be accurate? If so, I have a tough time with that. Isn’t it the Yankee fans we hate when they gloat and brag in our faces, not the Arod fans? Isn’t it the Yankees who made us sick throughout the late 90s and in the 2000 world series, not Arod? I can see you not liking Arod’s personality, but to me I think the personality of the Yankees (the world owes us world championships and if we don’t win the world is wrong) is by far the bigger enemy. And becoming like them would be my biggest fear.
as for the comments by whatdatmean, hmm where to start?
1) Perhaps “homegrown” wasn’t the right word. Instead, how about “players that develop their identity with the Mets.” And along with Wright and Reyes that would include Maine, Perez, Beltran, and a few others. I’m not saying NEVER to get a key veteran and plug him into the core we already have. But Arod is the type of player that becomes bigger than the team. Adding him means displacing one or both of our two biggest young homegrown stars, as well as breaking our bank and disrupting the entire team’s personality. Are you not in the least big concerned about becoming like the Mets teams of the early 90s or of 2002 with big names and big egos that couldn’t mesh and made us worse instead of better?
2) I think Arod is viewed as a “loser” because he is the most talented and well-paid player in the game but still has never even played in a world series. His recent postseason stats are awful. His decision making skills in the clutch (slapping the ball from Millar’s glove, screaming to distract a defender from making a catch) are questionable. His acquisition, as proven in the past, has done NOTHING to help teams win a championship, which leads me to…
3) Starting pitching should ALWAYS be valued over good offense. ALWAYS. I can’t stress that enough. I challenge you to look up the final scores of the Yankees World Series games from the 90s. You’ll see alot of 4-2, 3-2, 4-1 outcomes. Was their lineup really that potent in 2000 when they beat the Mets? Or was it their starting pitching during that era of Clemens, Cone, Pettitte, Wells, and El Duque that won them games. How about this year. I agree the Red Sox could score runs, but was there a better rotation other than Beckett-Schilling-Matsuzaka-Lester? And since when did the Cardinals have a potent lineup in 2006? Other than Pujols, their team of Eckstein, Speizio, Taguchi, Belliard, Molina, et al was pathetic. It was Carpenter, Suppan, Reyes, and Weaver that carried them to the championship. So you gotta get your facts straight buddy.
4) And that’s entirely the reason why Santana is a 1000% better acquisition than Arod. And yes, Santana can be had in something called a trade, dude. He’s available for the right price, and it would behoove the Twins to listen to offers knowing they won’t be able to resign him when he hits the free agent market. Trading Reyes for Santana is a tough pill to swallow, but look at it this way: you’d be acquiring the BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL for the 3rd or 4th best SS (after Rollins, Hanley Ramirez, and Arod, if he decides to play SS again). The fact that he pitches once every 5th day is regardless b/c he’s worth 2 wins in every postseason series, while Reyes needs to have an OBP of .500 to equal that production.
5) And yes, we can be MUCH worse than we were last year. The September collapse was brutal, but 88-74 is better than, say, a record under five-hundred. And again I say Arod, even with all his glorius statistics and hall of fame credentials, has never proven to be the missing link to put teams over the top. If anything, he’s proven to be the antidote to success. And I’d much rather some other team take a $300-mil chance on him and let the Mets concentrate on spending their money on more important issues, like starting pitching.
a few more things to add re: A-Rod and selfishness:
1. Did A-Rod sign with the Rangers because he wanted to be on a winner? Or because he wanted the most money?
2. Do unselfish people ask for a $252M contract, instead of $250M, because they want to be the #1 highest-paid person in sports?
3. Do unselfish people announce their availability in the middle of the final game of the World Series?
4. You point out that A-Rod accept the deal to the Yankees because he wanted to win a championship, and that he moved to 3B out of respect for Jeter. And these are points of unselfishness? First of all, the fact that HE wanted to win a championship doesn’t make him less selfish. And he moved to 3B not out of respect to Jeter but because that was the only way he was leaving Texas, and the only way he would have the honor of wearing the Yankee pinstripes. In other words, he did what he had to do to better himself. A-Rod wants to be remembered as the greatest player who ever lived, and obviously playing in a World Series for the Yankees and in the NY market would have only helped that goal.
Though, maybe whatdatmean is right about the Mets starting to become the new Yankees when they brought Pedro, Delgado, and Beltran on board. If the payroll suddenly doubles, I may start following the Cyclones.
â€œOf course heâ€™s not worth $30 million per year. Nobody is worth that amount of money. But thatâ€™s the going rate nowadays for that type of player.â€
Well hold on just a minute, there — cowboy.
Looking at these career OPS numbers (active players only) you have to wonder about that. The man in question is only #9 on the list. He isnâ€™t #1; he isnâ€™t even in the top 5. None of the others are getting paid even $25mil, and most are under $20. Itâ€™s not like $30 mil is the â€œgoing rateâ€ for superstar players.
Rank Player (age)
1. Barry Bonds (42)
2. Albert Pujols (27)
3. Todd Helton (33)
4. Manny Ramirez (35)
5. Frank Thomas (39)
6. Jim Thome (36)
7. Lance Berkman (31)
8. Vladimir Guerrero (31)
9. Alex Rodriguez (32)
10.Chipper Jones (35)
11.Jason Giambi (36)
12.David Ortiz (31)
13.Carlos Delgado (35)
14.Miguel Cabrera (24)
15.Ken Griffey (37)
There are other concerns:
A-Rod is entering the â€œdeclineâ€ phase of his career; heâ€™ll turn 33 in July. Based upon age-related performance, we are fairly certain Alexâ€™s performance will gradually begin to wane. Chances are Alexâ€™s final career OPS number will be lower than where it is now; probably not a whole lot lower, but somewhat reduced. The only player who got significantly better after age 35 sits at the top of this list, and he has his own issues.
Consequently the owner who pays Alex $30mil per year will be overpaying for past performance, and grossly overpaying for future performance. Neither makes sense.
Another factor thrown into the mix to muddy the waters is the oft stated fact that Alex had 156 RBI this year. Thatâ€™s an awesome number. Of course another fact is that he batted 4th behind three players with excellent OBP% figures.
According to Baseball Prospectus, Rodriguez came to bat with more runners on base (530) than any other player in 2007. He drove in 19.2% of those already-on-base-teammates. Scoring teammates accounted for 102 of his 156 RBI. The other 54 RBI were from scoring himself on HRs.
An average major league hitter scores 18% of his already-on-base-teammates. We can assume a perfectly average major league hitter batting 4th for the Yankees would have generated 95 RBI from those situations. In the department of scoring teammates already on base, ARod was 7 RBI better than an average hitter. Now being +7 is better than being below the norm. He couldâ€™ve have been -20 RBI in those situations. Many â€œRBI Menâ€ are below 18%. But is +7 worth $30 mil? If anybody pays Alex for his next contract based upon the expectancy of 150 RBI, better make sure Alex comes to bat with 500+ teammates on base.
Alexâ€™s age and physical stature makes it very likely heâ€™ll be playing 1B or LF before this contract expires. It wouldnâ€™t cost $30mil per year to get somewhat similar performance from a less expensive player at those positions.
And then thereâ€™s the credibility issue. Courtesy of the Hardball Times.com here are a few ARod quotes.
“Iâ€™ve always said to everybody that Seattle is my first choice.”
“I wanted to be a Met. Iâ€™ve always wanted to be a Met, Iâ€™ve been a Met fan since I was a kid. And I wouldâ€™ve played there for less money and less years and they know that.”
“I want to be remembered as a Texas Ranger.”
“You’re asking me what my sincere feeling is. I want to 100 percent stay in New York. Period. That’s it. I don’t know how many ways I can say it.”
“I want to be here. I want to stay here.”
“I want to be in New York. This is the place I want to finish my career. That’s it.â€
“We had options and we all know that, but I want to be in New York. That’s it.”
“I’ve always said it: I love New York, for me, as a player, to come full circle in New York, it’s the most comfortable I’ve felt.”
Heâ€™s as genuine as a $3 bill. His phoniness (perceived or actual) make him about as popular and well-liked as a wasp hive under your bed covers.
If the price is $30mil, Iâ€™ll pass — no matter what team. I can find a better way to spend $30mil.
We all hate when yankees fans have an entitled attitude, but the bottom line is their owner gives that to them. Steinbrenner, Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, and Mark Cuban are all guys that go by this same philosophy. They don’t seem to care as much about making a profit as they do about winning. That said, I’m sure they make as much money as any owners in sports, if not more. I have no problem with the mets spending 150 million on payroll if they are making enough money to justify it. I’d rather see that money be spent on improving them team than improving the wilpon’s checkbook.
I’d love to see us go get arod. I don’t want him for 10 years, and I don’t think he’s worth 30 million dollars, but he’s a player that we wouldn’t have to give up any prospects for. There aren’t too many opportunities to get a player of his caliber and not give up anything for. As management, they have to make some inquiry into his availability. Even if they don’t want to give him 30 million, or 10 years, they have to inquire about his interest and demands. I’d be perfectly happy if they talked to scott boras and came to the conclusiopn that what he was asking for was going to hurt the team going forward, but the wilpon’s owe it to the fans to at least talk to the guy. Guys of his caliber just don’t become available that often.
As for him taking the most money he can get, who here wouldn’t? I don’t think I’ve gone a day in my life when I was completely satisfied with what I’m paid. If a perspective employer offered me another 10000 bucks a year to take the same job elsewhere, I’d be awfully tempted to take it. Arod is no different from the rest of us there. If someone is willing to pay him more money, why wouldn’t he listen. If a team is willing to open the bank for him, why would he think they wouldn’t put a good team around him. Arod was the only high priced talent the rangers had for years, but he wasn’t the only high priced player. The rangers just spent their money very poorly, and made many bad decisions.
I know we’re going to hear nothing but Arod to the Mets rumors from now until Arod actually signs with a team. And I know there will be a very vocal contingency of Mets “fans” who will want to see the Mets acquire Arod no matter the cost. But to us diehards, we see right thru Arod. We want a team of players we enjoy cheering for, not a team of mercanaries and contract hogs. I don’t care if Arod wins 6 MVPs and breaks every record in the book as a Met. I want to win championships with a team of players I like. And I’m not sold that Arod would A) make the Mets any better, or B) make me want to cheer for him just because he’s in a Mets uniform. If every team since 1994 has found a way to win a World Series without Arod, so can the Mets.
Nice one, Walnutz … and an excellent post overall. Most of those numbers are news to me.
skibolton — on the one hand, I absolutely agree that MLB owners have the dough, and only a few spend it. And in fact I think George Steinbrenner is the best owner in MLB because he is willing to part with the profits to put the best team on the field. And I agree that most if not all of us try to make as much money as we can.
However, for many of the reasons others have mentioned, I have no interest in A-Rod wearing the orange and blue. It’s not the greed so much as the phoniness and his domination of attention.
Echoing isuzudude: I want a team of players I like. A-Rod is getting harder to like every day.
Now, AROD is no saint, and comes with more than enough baggage. However…I am a fan that likes to see guys comeup and play withn the club that brought them. We need to build the farms, maybe import some young talent from teams. The only way to execute this is by buying 1 player than can change your team and take the pressure off the youth on your team. This may allow other guys on the mets to step in [gomez, LMILLZ, pelf, humber, f-mart, gotay…]. Having a guy knock in 140+ rbi’s definatly takes the edge off, so does having a gold glove 3B. That does win games, especially when you have guys like wright and reyes on base for him.
You want to talk about personality…I hope your not a Beltran fan…bc they act like distant brothers. they are one in the same, but beltran is the lesser version. Dont even get me started on delgado. We already “Arod” type b personalities on the team. Odds are that if we get Arod, the teams dumps delgado, leaving us with the same # of, unexcitable/tybe B personalities [arod/beltran]. However, he will hit a lot of late game HR’s, and score a ton of runs, either sparking a rally, or winning the game. No one is a steal at 30M…but he is the best player available, and will not cost us any talent, which may allow us to get a true #1 SP.
It makes the most sense to help the Mets recover from what happened to the organization is losing a lot of talent, poor draft picks, and uneven trades. Worry about Santana when he is available. Wilpon never opens his pockets…if this is the one time he’s willing to….go for it.
AROD isnt needed….but everyone talking about his character is funny….not like anyone knows him, he just gets harrassed for everything he does. If we do get him, half of the “haters” will flip-flop, the other half will stupidly “boo”…making a transition and a championship that much harder.
Bottom line, there is no one better out there and there is no SP to invest in….we need a power hitter…. 1 + 1 stills =2, right? I know signing him wont cost me a dime…so if freddy wants to spend…i said he is long past due
Who knows what will happen…Boras will have this running until new year…
god i hate that guy!
My prediction: Boras gets enough “interest” from the Mets to get the bidding started at $30M/year, then runs out to the West Coast to get the Dodgers, Angels, and Giants to fight it out. In the end, the Giants win the “stupidest contract offer of the year” award for the second consecutive winter.
If you can please photo-shop the AROD picture (as u would normally do)
Using his image to replace Wright at 3rd base or even Reyes at SS.
I want to see that reaction.
Bad mojo indeed.